Reclaim You- Understanding the Roots of People Pleasing
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Join Sarah and Abby in this episode of Reclaim You as they dive deep into the world of people-pleasing.
They explore how this tendency affects relationships, self-identity, and recovery from trauma and disordered eating.
Through personal stories, they discuss the challenges of balancing the desire to please others with the need to honor one's own needs. They touch on the connection between people-pleasing and perfectionism and the importance of authentic communication and self-care.
Tune in for insights on untangling the complexities of people-pleasing and a few take home tips to support you.
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To learn more about Reclaim Therapy and how to work with a therapist on the team, head to www.reclaimtherapy.org.
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Sarah: Welcome to Reclaim You, a podcast published by the Reclaim Therapy team. Join us as we share stories, tools, and insights on how to reclaim you in the wake of trauma, disordered eating, and body shame. Grab your coffee, tea, or your favorite snack and get cozy because we're about to dive in.
Sarah: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to reclaim you. Today, Abby and I are going to be talking about people pleasing and everything that the people pleasing tentacles touches. Maybe not everything, but lots of things that the tentacles of people pleasing touches.
Abby: Hello, everyone. Hi, Sarah.
Sarah: Hey. So we were going back and forth about what we should talk about today, and Abby was feeling pulled towards people pleasing. What kind of is pulling you towards that today?
Abby: Oh my gosh. I think I am a people pleaser. Recovering people pleaser may always be a people pleaser. Basically all to say I'm constantly working on people pleasing or getting to know the people pleasing part of me. It's something I've actually been working on a lot more in my own therapy lately. So it's just very on my mind. And often in the work that I do with clients too, we may notice the people pleasing part really prominent. So I've always been a self identified people pleaser. And I'm really, really curious about it. How it shows up for me, how it shows up for others. Sort of like why we seek to make everyone else around us feel good. Yeah. I'm very much in the people pleasing camp, so I'm excited to talk a little bit more about this today.
Sarah: Yeah, it feels so related to even the podcast that you and I recorded. Gosh, it was a while ago on boundaries and setting boundaries and how boundaries can be really difficult when folks identify as people pleasers. Or maybe not even identify, but just like shift into those tendencies. And it just feels really messy and difficult. And I too identify as a recovering people pleaser. Probably still very much so.
Abby: A people pleaser.
Sarah: So I'm with you.
Abby: Yeah. It's not the part of me that I love the most. It kind of drives me up a wall sometimes. And also it's the one that's very consistently there. I was thinking about this earlier, knowing that we were going to talk about this, and I kind of thinking like, are we all people pleasers? It just feels like we all, and to some extent we all do strive to make others feel good and happy. And I guess maybe there's a difference between doing that occasionally. Like, if you're presenting something at work and you need to do a really good job, you're going to be worried about how are other people thinking of me in this moment compared to sort of the chronic, what are people thinking of me? Are they judging me? Like sort of that voice on loop pretty often, if not all the time. I had this thought and probably it's because of my own people pleasing, of like, aren't we all?
Sarah: Aren't we all a little bit? But that makes sense that you say that, of being drawn into connection with other people. And when you don't necessarily know how to or don't trust that you can feel that depth of connection without pleasing or without maybe sacrificing part of yourself in some way or something like that, then it maybe feels like, yeah, well, isn't this just normal? Isn't this what everyone has to do? Or isn't this what everyone is drawn to do? So I get that.
Abby: Yeah. And then I think, too, well, people pleasing, it kind of parts of it feel, like, really helpful to me, so it keeps me in good connection, and it keeps me motivated to keep doing better. So what's the problem with people pleasing? Sometimes I get in my head about that, and I talk to clients about that too. Oh, but this is the thing that keeps my loved ones around, and it's the thing that allows me to do the best job that I could possibly do. So kind of I don't know, I often explore for myself and also with clients. Okay, there are helpful parts of this part of you. It's trying to do something for you. And also, when does it become sort of all consuming, where it's really hard to just be present and to engage in an authentic way with others, with yourself? When does it get to a point where you are no longer taking care of your own needs in complete service of everyone else? That's where it gets a little bit tricky and complicated.
Sarah: Yeah. I'm curious what you see or maybe your own experience of getting close to that line. How do you sense within yourself of, oh, I'm shifting into major people pleasing? What are the symptoms of that? Or what is the experience of that?
Abby: I feel like it goes back to what we talked about with boundaries. Like, is resentment coming up? So I'm doing a lot for other people, or I'm thinking a lot about how other people are feeling, how they're doing, what they're thinking of me. So there's that anxiety and that worry, and then maybe also some resentment or tension there. It's a little bit more sort of tangible and concrete. But very simply, when I'm denying my own needs for other people's needs so that could look like being in conversation with someone, you leave and you're like, I barely spoke at all. I didn't get to talk about how I'm doing. Like, the conversation completely centered on them or even very tangible needs. Oh, I didn't have a moment to do anything for myself today.
Sarah: Thinking of that, like, preservation of other people's feelings over your own over your own feelings, your own needs. When you were saying that, I was thinking about a conversation we were having before we started recording about my haircut that I just got and how I think that the person who cut it forgot to cut the front of it because it's significantly longer. And I actually said, I think I have to find someone new to go fix this, because I can't possibly go back and tell her. So there I am. I'm falling into that. I'm really worried about hurting her feelings. So anyway, yeah, I mean, it's so.
Abby: Funny, too, talking about haircuts and my hair stylist and I, we were talking the last time I was there, and I was asking him questions. Oh, my gosh, you must hear lots of stories all day long. What's it like talking to people all day in your work? And he said to me, he's like, well, usually I really appreciate when people talk the whole time about what's going on for them because it takes all the attention and focus on me. And when he said that, I was like, Me too. What are we going to do in this? Oh, no, we both do not want the attention on us. We want to just solely sort of caretake and listen to and tend to the other person. So here I am, sort of, like, asking him questions, trying to hear his story. He's also, like, trying to hear my story. And it felt very much like, two people, pleasers, in a situation where, like, clashing. Right. Finally, we came to talking about lots of fun stuff like 90s TV and random stuff like that. But it dawned on me, and it's funny that both people pleasing sort of tendencies came out in the hair salon for us recently.
Sarah: Yeah. And I'm thinking of memes on, I think, instagram that, I don't know, people are getting their hair done, and when they turn you around in the mirror and the hairstylist is like, so what do you think? And people are, like, dying inside because they hate it. And they're like, I love it. It's like, what a perfect example of preserving someone else's feelings. And yes, that feels kind of important in some ways, but also, if you're paying all this money, it's expensive to get your hair cut, and you have to wear it on your head.
Abby: And there's something so hard about being honest in that moment and taking care of ourselves to say, actually, this is not exactly what I envisioned. Could we perhaps work on this a little bit more? So much comes up. There the fear of making them uncomfortable, the anxiety of making them feel sad.
Sarah: Or even like owning your own discomfort. Right? Yeah, I totally relate to that. Yeah, 100%. Owning my own discomfort and being like, hey, I think you forgot to cut these big chunks of my hair. Can I come back?
Abby: That feels so uncomfortable. Totally. Yeah. People pleasing as a way to kind of avoid feeling discomfort, feeling shame, feeling anxiety, feeling like, really any of the uncomfortable emotions. It can be a strategy that we use not super, intentionally or consciously, but a way to just all is good. We're feeling okay. We don't have to feel that anxiety.
Sarah: Or shame or being too much, whatever.
Abby: Yeah. And it's likely a strategy for a lot of people pleasers, maybe not all, but some that has been really effective throughout our lives. So for some people, pleasers, with folks that I talk to, it's like we may have grown up in situations where to kind of keep the peace or to make sure we feel safe. We may just sort of people please in more overt ways. So how can I help you? Literally helping the person who is feeling really intense emotions, so helping them to ground and feel okay, so then that we feel regulated and okay. And then also in some sort of more subtle ways. I think people pleasing can also happen in subtle ways of like, all right, in order to keep the peace in my family, or in order to keep the peace in this situation that I'm in, I need to just be really good and stay quiet and stay small and not ruffle any feathers or rock the boat. And then from that, sometimes we're praised explicitly or implicitly for that behavior. Oh, you're such a well behaved, good girl. Thank you so much for just being so easy for me.
Sarah: You always follow directions. You always do what I ask, whatever it is. Yeah.
Abby: So it's reinforced in both ways. Like, oh, when I do these things, things feel a lot more safe. There's a lot more peace and ease. Everyone's, like, a little bit happier. Maybe there's not all these uncomfortable emotions flying around and maybe even like, physical safety is maintained for some. So not just emotional, but physical safety is maintained by the use of that strategy. And then also yeah, the praise that we get further reinforced. I mean, I even think of awards that some kids get in school. People pleasing tendency, which makes it just very sort of like a really strong, helpful pattern to fall back on in many parts of our lives throughout our days because it feels really safe. It feels like this is the thing that's going to keep me and everyone else around me.
Sarah: Okay. Absolutely. I'm thinking of that suppression of emotion. If you're deeply feeling human keeping it squelched, keeping it inside. Not expressing it when you've been told it's too much or too whatever. And taking that energy and shifting it all towards whoever it is in your world.
Abby: What?
Sarah: You've just explained of taking care of them or doing whatever it is that they need because you've been told you're too much or something like that. People pleasing just comes from so many different places. So many different places, and it can then shift and shape shift into other strategies. Right. The strategy of people pleasing, it makes sense if we think about it and we track it back, and then it can shift into body image stuff or perfectionism or disordered eating. We could go on and on. But those are some heavy hitters.
Abby: Yeah, I kind of think like the concentric circles. Is that the word? Right. Concentric circles of okay, here we are in the middle and then outside of us is maybe like family of origin. Outside of that is sort of community. In school, we kind of talked about both of all three of those. Right. So we may individually feel like our emotions are too much or whatever and our family is sort of reiterating that. And then our family is praising us for being good and keeping things easy and all that good stuff. And perhaps there's trauma. And so then we people please as a trauma response. And then sort of in our community in school, that gets played out. And so maybe we're also then getting praised and rewarded for being really having really good behavior, being a good listener, being a good sharer, whatever the thing is. And then culturally, like on the way outside of the circle, I think people pleasing is also reinforced in some ways. And maybe reinforced isn't the word, but even just when you talked about body image we're sort of taught the message is sent to us that to gain approval and not just approval, but to be worthy and lovable, you need to be pleasing to other people. And culturally so. Not just interpersonally, but culturally because we live in the society we live in and it's also a very visual society with social media now, it kind of boils down to be worthy, to be lovable, you need to be pleasing to the eye of whoever. You need to look a certain way. So it just builds and grows outward. And the people pleasing is reinforced sort of every which way we look. If that's already a tendency that you have inside.
Sarah: Absolutely. And if part of the people pleasing is avoiding some of the discomfort of your own emotions that's where disordered eating can also really enter in because that connection to feeling is already kind of severed in some ways and then restriction, further severs or further disconnects. Right. And on and on we go. Those ripples, like you just keep going. So it feels like the perfect storm in some ways when someone has those tendencies to want to numb even more, want to shift towards other people's needs and away from them.
Abby: Yeah. People pleasing at its core is taking care of other people at the expense really of our own needs and feels really sort of inherent in maybe not all eating disorders but it just feels like a core of a lot of people's experience with their eating disorder. In order to be worthy and lovable, I need to look a certain way. The message has been sent to me in many, many ways culturally, maybe in my family, maybe in my school, in my community. And then so I engage in behaviors to intentionally change, shrink my body to fit that. So again, it's like denial of needs. Yeah. Further separation from being in tune with our needs in order to take care of other people. Even if taking care of other people, it's just much bigger. It's much bigger than taking care of someone's emotions by patting them on the back and saying it's going to be all right at the expense of their own needs. Taking care of other people through intentionally trying to change our bodies in harmful ways. I don't know. It's so much bigger. I was thinking of this earlier, too, like, what is the connection between people pleasing and perfectionism because they feel so similar, but there is sort of a different energy to the two of them. And I guess what I came to was that perfectionism is sort of a part of people pleasing. So if people pleasing is the root of the plant, perfectionism is like a petal or like one of the flowers. I'm getting into gardening, so I don't know all the things. And so something that I read also just before we spoke, because I have Brene Brown's Atlas of the Heart book, and I love Brene Brown, and I know she just does such a good job of talking about perfectionism because she studies shame, which is sort of the other side of the perfectionism coin. And I bookmarked this page because I thought it was just such a great way of talking about it. Healthy striving is self focused. So how can I improve? Perfectionism is other focused. What will they think? And that stood out to me because I talk to a lot of people about perfectionism, and often what comes up, not only for them, but it's also come up for me a lot around. Well, if I get rid of my perfectionism in any way or if I set it off to the side, I'm not going to try very hard. I'm not going to make any moves in my life. I'm not going to work towards my goals. I'll literally just wither away. Right. That to me, felt so important to read. If healthy striving is self focused, how can I improve so that I'm living in alignment with my values, so that I'm living in alignment with my soul's purpose, whatever that might mean. It just feels very different from perfectionism, which is I'm doing this in order to gain approval. And so maybe it is when you find yourself or when I find myself in a perfectionist cycle, I'm really trying to perfect the thing that I'm doing, maybe perfect the way I'm looking, whatever it is. Getting curious. Am I doing this that's sort of like healthy striving? Or is this self focused? Or is this other focused right now? Is this sort of the flower that's connected to the people pleasing root? And if that's the case, what can I do to take care of what's going on underneath the surface here because this isn't necessarily motivation that I need to keep moving forward. There's something else that needs tending to and perfecting. The thing that I'm working on isn't going to do it because perfectionism isn't real. It's not possible. It's just going to make us fall back into a cycle of shame when we inevitably don't meet sort of that unrealistic standard that we've set ourselves up for. So again, more words, but yeah. Brene Brown, I love the way she talks about perfectionism.
Sarah: Yeah. So then what do we do? How do we work with people pleasing? I know there definitely aren't quick, easy fixes, right? Because fixing is no one's broken, right? But how can you start to maybe understand your own tendencies to people please. And those offshoots of flowers from that route of people pleasing, how can you start to work with it?
Abby: I think the first step with so many things is just starting to notice. So noticing that very question is what I'm doing right now in service of in honor of myself, in the sense that I want to be better for myself versus is what I'm doing solely to get out of feeling or reduce feeling any type of discomfort? So am I trying to make someone else feel good? To then make myself feel a little bit more calm and regulated? So noticing that and then eventually, over time, seeing if there's ways to start to experiment with or explore sort of small ways of challenging the people pleasing tendency. So not transforming the tendency overnight. And this is just an example, if the tendency is when someone says, oh, where should we go to dinner? And your tendency is, I don't know, it's totally up to you. I have no preference. But maybe you do have a preference. Maybe the challenge is to offer up, oh, maybe I've heard of these few options like do you have any that you're interested in? Sort of a small accessible way that feels like I'm starting to honor my needs in addition to this other person's needs because the people pleasing is here's, me. And then the less they can sign and then there's them. So kind of bringing yourself into the equation a little bit more slowly, slowly over time. And then of course, if therapy is something that you're doing, kind of bringing that into sessions with your therapist. And then there's also lots of practices that I myself have engaged with over the years that have helped me to strengthen and develop my sense of self and to strengthen and develop my own intuition. Because I think a large sort of outcome of people pleasing is that we do, we lose our sense of self and we lose a sense of what do we actually want, what do we actually need and how can we honor that? And so this might not be for everyone, but for some I love my yoga practice. It's a gentle yoga practice. And I love it because it does. The teachers that I work with often offer up, like, here's sort of a wide menu array of things that you can choose from and see what happens when you tune into your body and your emotions, tune into what's here for you today. And then you can make the choice to honor where you're at in this moment. And at first it was like, I have no idea. But kind of playing around with that, you start to learn what it is that you need and how you can honor that. So it's not like maybe the quote unquote full expression of the pose just to look really cool doing it, but maybe it's like, no, I really need to rest today, so I'm going to be in the more restful version of this form. And that right there is challenging the people. Pleaser, I'm not doing this for anyone else but me. And that's just like one of many practices, like a journaling practice can be really eye opening in terms of taking the focus off of everyone else and going inward. And there's so many more.
Sarah: When you were saying that in the therapeutic relationship, I was thinking about how to get curious about when, if I'm the client, you're my therapist, and I'm doing things for your approval, right. Or kind of like skirting around the edges and maybe not. I think you shared last time you were on the podcast with Nick about inviting the struggle. Right. And we invite that and we want to be with people in that people pleasing, then again takes us out of that. And I'm going to do this the way that I think that you want me to do this and maybe trying to play with that a little bit in your sessions with your therapist, if that's coming up.
Abby: Because I think it does come up.
Sarah: For a lot of people. I know it's come up for me in therapy before of like, well, I'm just going to do this because I think I should. And I don't know if it's helpful, but she thinks I should, so I'm going to do it. And can you invite some of that struggle into session of like, I'm feeling like I'm trying to please you by doing these things and not share maybe what I'm really needing. That even there that dynamic of feeling safe enough to say that with your therapist, which hopefully you do, can be really, I think, supportive and altering in the way that you engage with other people on the outside, outside of your therapy sessions.
Abby: Yeah, no, it makes so much sense. And it makes me think about how going back to sort of seeing if you can challenge the people pleasing tendency by practicing something different, kind of practicing with those safe people, whether it's a therapist or someone that you really trust seeing what it would be like to speak up about what it is that you need and want again, whether it is like texting, like, here are some options for dinner, places that we could go to the typical way and then yeah, certainly in therapy. I've also been a people pleaser in my own therapy as well, wanting to make sure that everyone else is taken care of because then that soothes. But sometimes comfort is important to lean into in efforts to get to honor ourselves.
Sarah: Yeah, I'm thinking also in terms of diet culture and the rejection of diet culture and then for so many people, like some backlash of shifting paradigms of that feels like too much. But you're like a non diet provider, so I have to say that I'm never going to diet again, but I actually really want to go on Weight Watchers.
Abby: Right?
Sarah: And there it is showing up again. And that's just, like, such a common experience for people because intuitive eating and recovery from disordered eating is so intense and it's just such a different way of thinking about things that when you disconnect from your needs to try to find containment, to try to settle into ways that felt comfortable before. And you don't speak to that. We're missing a big piece of the puzzle because sure, dieting is not the answer, but can we get familiar with the needs that are under the desire to diet? And then what happens then?
Abby: Yeah, that is a huge part of people pleasing too. Right? I know that this is something that we're working on. I know that this is sort of the focus of the work that you do. So to reduce or avoid or push down any discomfort that might come with actually, I think I want to try this. Fill in the blank that would be maybe contrary or whatever, like not as quote unquote aligned to the work that we do. That tendency is so real and it makes so much sense. You want to again, going back to keep the peace and keep it okay and knowing that just like we talked about in our last episode around like, we invite the struggle. It's sort of like we invite all parts of you, even and especially the parts that are maybe feeling ambivalent towards the process or are not so sure that this is what you want. Right. So that too is also a way to explore what it would be like to really state what it is you're thinking, needing, wanting and just like a.
Sarah: Strong message to everyone, anyone who's listening. What we care most about I'll speak for therapists on our team is, like you, we care about our clients, whether they're on the same page of intuitive eating as we are or not, we care about them. And we want our clients to be able to feel honest and valued and respected and safe enough in the relationship that they can bring these things and start to challenge or understand or move with the people pleasing parts as much as possible.
Abby: Yeah. So well said.
Sarah: All right, Abby, anything you want to add as we finish up about people pleasing? Perfectionism.
Abby: The only thing that I'm thinking about right now is it's my tendency. And I've also talked to other people about this is okay. If I start to kind of explore this people pleasing part, it's not to say that we need to trash it and then solely act from a place of what's good for me, what's in service of me, because there's often this feeling or belief, like, oh, my gosh, that's selfish to not consider other people's needs. And so I'm super curious about the idea of selfishness. Maybe that's for another time. But I do think there's a difference between people pleasing and sort of collective community care. So on the people pleasing end, I'm focusing completely on your needs, totally disregarding my own in order to feel safe and regulated. And that's not super helpful. And on the flip side, it's not that we're just then focusing all the attention inward and not caring at all about anyone in the world. It's like, no. When I'm taking care of myself, when I'm honoring my needs, when I'm listening to myself, I have way more space, and I'm way more available to use really what those are, which are strengths. Like, the people pleaser within us also has lots of strengths empathy, compassion, attunement. So when I take care of myself, I have more space to use those strengths in service of sort of like, community care in something much deeper than people pleasing for just kind of pushing down emotions.
Sarah: Well, thank you so much for this conversation.
Abby: Yeah, thank you. It was helpful to kind of talk through a lot of what's been on my mind.
Sarah: Hair salon issues.
Abby: Yes.
Sarah: I'm going to relisten to this and then wonder if I should just go back to the hair salon.
Abby: I'll let you know. That would be so great. Take a video of yourself, like, stating exactly what it is you need. Yes, that'd be great.
Sarah: All right, everybody, we will be back next week with another episode, and until then, take good care of yourself.
Sarah: Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Reclaim You. Be sure to, like, comment and subscribe and check us out on on YouTube at Reclaim You. If you're looking to start therapy for trauma disordered eating, or body image concerns, head over to our website at www.reclaimtherapy.org to learn more about us and our work. We'll be back next week with another episode. Until then, take good care of yourself.
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