Reclaim You- Diving Into The Bridgerton Buzz
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In this episode, Sarah and Emily discuss the recent buzz around the show Bridgerton, bodies in the media, fatphobia, internalized fatphobia, and anti-fatness. They explore the definitions of these terms and their impact.
Takeaways
Fatphobia and anti-fat bias perpetuate fear, stereotypes, and harm.
Internalized fatphobia is the internalization of societal messages that fat bodies are undesirable, unworthy and a problem to be solved.
The media plays a significant role in promoting fat phobia and weight stigma.
Representation of diverse body types in the media is crucial for challenging societal beauty standards.
It is important to call out and challenge fat phobia and anti-fat bias when encountered.
Educating oneself and seeking out diverse perspectives can help in dismantling fat phobia and promoting body acceptance.
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Sarah (00:00)
Hey everybody. Welcome back to Reclaim You. Emily's here today and we are recording an episode we've been trying to record for approximately three weeks.
Emily (00:10)
What? everybody.
Sarah (00:12)
Hey, hey, so today we, well about three weeks ago, we planned to talk about Bridgerton. So we're a little late.
Emily (00:19)
Yes. Yeah, I mean it's still Bridgerton summer, I guess. Bridgerton vibe, so to speak. Yeah.
Sarah (00:27)
Absolutely, yeah. So we're going to talk about Bridgerton, bodies in the media, fat phobia, internalized fat phobia, anti -fatness, all of those things. So that's the plan for today.
Emily (00:39)
Yes, yes.
Sarah (00:40)
Yeah, so to get started, because we're still in the first stretch somehow of the second season, tell us what reclaim you means to you in this season of your life.
Emily (00:50)
Love that question. I think that reclaim me means prioritizing the things that I need. So whether that's with other people and setting boundaries with other people, saying no if I need to or letting people know like my preferences and things that I need. That feels really important when I think about
me in this season of my life. But I think that that also extends to like personal boundaries and like being real with myself and doing things that I know are also good for me. So like I'm trying to limit my phone time. I'm trying to have a better bedtime routine. I'm trying to make sure that I drink enough water, like things like that. So yeah, I feel like when I think about that, I think about
just boundaries in general, boundaries with other people, boundaries with myself, and just like really prioritizing needs and things that I know make me feel good, even if they're not like the most fun thing or like the easiest thing to ask for.
Sarah (01:58)
great one. So let's dive into this. I feel like starting with defining fat phobia or anti fatness and internalized fat phobia might be helpful to start because that's like, feel like that's the umbrella that all of this falls under is this fear of fatness.
so to start off, fat phobia or anti -fat bias, weight stigma. So these are all stereotypes and misconceptions that fat people are seen as lazy, unintelligent, have lack of self control or discipline. an author and an influencer. says anti -fattness regulates the kind of bodies we see and trains us.
in who we are socially permitted or expected to be attracted to. So it really refers to the fear of fatness and the idea that attaining a thinner fit body is the ultimate life goal and presenting as fat is a sign of moral failing. And something to add on that in her book, You Just Need to Lose Weight and 19 Other Myths About Fat People, she discusses the myth of fatness as undesirable, like we said before.
And she writes that the prevalence of anti -fat bias has led to a popular misconception that no one is attracted to fat people. And she writes about how fat people's sexualities are dismissed and obscured because of their weight. So that's like a, that's a lot, a broad view, but really is this fear of fatness, the idea that being fat is wrong or bad, or you are unworthy if you're fat, all of these things. Do you have anything to add to that?
Emily (03:28)
was, I think, a really, really great descriptor of and kind of summary of what that means. When I think about it, I think of the broad idea that that is bad and this idea that you are bad or you are less than or like you were saying that you are unworthy if your body does not conform with
thin diet culture norms.
Sarah (03:53)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And when we hear about internalized fat phobia, it feels like there's a difference between internalized fat phobia, and then like body dysmorphia, body dissatisfaction, poor self esteem, poor self image, all of those things. And really, you know, internalized fat phobia, I feel like is really for folks who are fat, who experience oppression and, you know, discrimination based on their body size and weight on the day to day where
those folks are internalizing the message that because they're fat, they don't deserve the same opportunities as folks who are living in thin bodies right? So folks who have thin privilege, folks who live in mid -sized bodies, they can experience a lot of anti -fatness, right? Where they have this idea that, again, like fatness is bad. Where folks who are living in fat bodies and who experience
these microaggressions and even larger aggressions on a daily basis, this internalization of like, that's right and I am wrong, my body is wrong. It feels like something to just kind of differentiate and play with as we're talking about it.
Emily (04:58)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's a very important point.
Sarah (05:00)
Yeah. So a lot of folks with internalized fat phobia, a lot of the beliefs are like that they're unattractive, that they're lazy, undisciplined, they're less deserving of, less intelligent, that they're to blame for health issues and things like that. So a few more just factors to kind of think about as we're engaging in this conversation.
Emily (05:20)
I think what I'm still kind of mulling over in my head is just how much the quote that you shared kind of plays in with a lot of the conversation that I think really was sparked and came to the forefront with this season of Bridgerton. And not that this season was the first time that we've had this conversation. I mean, this is a conversation that's been going on for a very, very long time. But I think because...
the show is so popular and it has such a fan base like this this conversation really blew up and I think really what stood out to me is this idea that people in fat bodies, people in larger bodies are not attractive, cannot be lusted after or desired or really like can't be like sexual beings. And I think that that
really blew up with this season and it's making a lot of people uncomfortable.
Sarah (06:20)
Yeah, yeah. So I haven't watched Bridgerton. So I have no what's going on. I've read about it online, right? Yeah, still. I know I still need to watch it. And yeah, about a month ago when we had planned to record this episode, it was really there was a lot of buzz about it on the internet on TikTok, I imagine, I'm not on TikTok, but on Instagram on all the places. like, yeah, tell us more about what you were seeing. Like what was out there?
Emily (06:48)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
I I feel like it was everywhere and it was a lot of, it was both sides. And I feel like that is kind of like a lot of what we see in these hot topic conversations or things that blow up on social media. It's either this camp that's like, my God, this is amazing.
this is so groundbreaking, really, really leaning in and praising. And then there's this other side that's like, this is not okay, I'm very uncomfortable with this, this isn't realistic. I feel like there were a lot of extremes, as there normally is and not a lot in the middle. So kind of leaning.
into those, I think that there were a lot of people who felt very seen by this season of, you know, this is a lead actress who has a body that doesn't fit, diet culture standards. And a lot of people felt...
again, like very seen by that of like, her body looks like mine or her body's not perfect, my body is not perfect. Like, this is amazing. And we're seeing this in the context of this person is attractive. This person is, you know, attracting someone else. This person is kind of, we're talking about this.
in a way that we don't normally talk about this and I think that that felt like really refreshing and really validating for a lot of people. On the other side of that there was the camp of I don't want to see that, you know, this isn't realistic, like someone that looks like her and someone that looks like the the lead actor, like that wouldn't happen.
And I think that there, you know, with all the positive and all the people that felt very seen, there were a lot of people that really, really pushed back on that and said some really harmful comments and kind of perpetuated fat phobia and all those things that we kind of opened up with.
Sarah (08:57)
Right, right, which is the importance of understanding that anti -fat bias is real and is alive. And the media that we consume and our reaction to the media that we consume is often just a byproduct of all of that. So yeah, the fact that there was a conventionally, I don't know, attractive man dating a woman.
who could be considered fat and all of the fallout that came from that is like a perfect example of anti -fat bias and fat phobia at play.
Emily (09:31)
Yeah. And I think even the conversation in general outside of what people were saying, just the conversation in general and the fact that this was such a topic, I don't know if it would have been if it was people in conventional bodies or, you know, straight sized bodies. And I think that even goes to show that this is a big deal and this is something that
we need, like, I think that we need to talk about that. I wish I would have heard people talk about, like, the fact that we're even talking about it. I think that that could have been a really productive conversation, but that wasn't necessarily something that I saw when I was seeing the chatter around
Sarah (10:15)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, there's always lots of misses and the polarity of social media can get so intense, of course, in all of the ways, not only these conversations, but representation really matters, right? And the fact that people did see feel seen and that like, all bodies are being celebrated, right? It was this like bid into
Emily (10:22)
Mm
Sarah (10:42)
Like people are deserving of love and intimacy and, you know, celebrating relationship no matter what their body is like, right? Like that feels just so important to name because I think that's what we miss, you know? And when there's shame around a relationship because of size or expectation, whatever, you know, we step out of celebration. When we step out of celebration, we kind of step into unworthiness.
Emily (11:08)
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, unfortunately, we, that was a new way of, of seeing that portrayal on television. And I think, yes, there were some misses for sure. But I think for the most part, it was
it was portrayed in a very celebratory kind of natural way. And if we look back at, you know, some other examples that we've seen it, doesn't feel like it's portrayed in the same way. It actually feels like very derogatory.
Sarah (11:46)
Right, so let's talk about some of those real quick. Just because they're abundant, right? It's literally like every movie or TV show with someone's who's fat is some portrayal of like you need to lose weight to be considered desirable or to get the guy, right? Typically it's to get the guy and
Emily (11:48)
I'm sorry.
Sarah (12:09)
which there's problems in all of this, right? Like just to say that there's problems in all of this. So we'll focus on body size at the moment. But the first thing that came to my mind was friends and you know what they called her fat Monica, right?
Emily (12:16)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Sarah (12:26)
and that was problematic in so many ways.
Emily (12:30)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. And I might get canceled for this. I haven't watched Friends all the way through. But I do remember those episodes, like, tuning in randomly, like, of her or that character, like, coming in. And it always was like, yikes, like, that. What are we doing here? What are we doing here?
Sarah (12:37)
I haven't either actually. I haven't either.
Right, right, yeah. And even like mean girls, this was, don't know, was I in high school? I don't remember when Mean Girls came out, but yeah. And you know, the like significant fear of fatness that was just like normalized, normalized in Mean Girls.
Emily (13:11)
Mm -hmm. the early 2000s were just abundant in fat phobia. I feel like I just saw an Instagram post on this the other day talking about America's Next Top Model. Just the extreme, extreme fat phobia on that show and ridiculing girls, telling girls that they were
Sarah (13:23)
yeah.
Emily (13:37)
fat when you know people on the other side of the the screen were like well if you're saying that to them like what does that mean about me and it was just I can't believe they aired that show there should be like a warning with that show but it was just
Sarah (13:53)
Yeah, because it was all like derogatory, right? It was like this pathologizing of bodies that were actually straight sized bodies and very thin bodies. And so if these very thin humans were being criticized and, you know, judged, yeah, what does that mean for everyone else in the world?
Emily (14:14)
even too and I don't think that we've seen a lot of this but in in the shows or the movies that I've seen of relationships where especially relationships where the woman might be in a larger body than the man it's it's almost portrayed as a joke and
That is one thing that I thought was very refreshing to me watching this season was I loved that it was portrayed as as just a real normal relationship. There wasn't this joke factor. There wasn't this, at least on the screen of like, how can he be interested in her? Like it was. It was just normal, which is what it should be, which is what it is. Yeah.
Sarah (14:59)
Right, right, which is what it is in so many relationships in the here and now. And the fact that it was an actual human, right? An actual person in a body, not a body wearing a fat suit, right?
Emily (15:03)
Yeah.
Yes. Mm -hmm. Yes.
Sarah (15:13)
Yeah, yeah. Because if we think about it, especially from the early 2000s, right, movies of people wearing fat suits like Monica and friends, right? Or, you know, what's her name? I can't remember her name in Shallow Howl, which was just like, yeah, was it Gwyneth Paltrow? Yeah, yeah. Like such a problematic movie, right? That someone had to be hypnotized to fall in love with a fat person, like so problematic in so many ways.
Emily (15:28)
Yeah.
Sarah (15:40)
Yeah, right, like all of these messages that, I mean, was, I was in my teens in the early 2000s, right? So, wait, was I?
Yeah, sorry, I'm like, I was like doing the math. Yes, I was in my teens. So all of these messages that all of us who were born in the 80s were, you know, receiving in the early 2000s were wildly problematic.
Emily (16:00)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. And then we look at how widespread, you know, fat phobia is and internalized fat phobia and biases and all of those things. Like, there are a lot of factors there for sure. And we could get into a lot of those different factors, I'm sure, in different episodes. But I think that those messages that we receive from the media are a huge factor there.
Sarah (16:26)
Right, right. Yeah, and so it shows up in the media and weight bias also shows up, of course, so much in healthcare settings. I don't know if we've done a podcast about that. I think we've mentioned it here and there. But healthcare is huge. The anti -fat bias
huge in healthcare settings, medical settings, work settings, of course online, on the internet, in schools, right? Like the BMI, we've talked about this on podcasts before, like the BMI stuff in nurses office and gym classes and the fitness tests and the shaming that comes along with all of it, right? This is all under the same umbrella.
Emily (17:07)
Do they still do those fitness tests?
Sarah (17:09)
I'll know soon, my son's going into kindergarten, so I'm sure I'll find out. I know, I know, I think Laura talked about it one of her episodes. I don't know if they, tell us, do they still do the fitness test, the?
Emily (17:21)
god, I hope they got rid of that. my god. Ugh.
Sarah (17:25)
I know they still do weights and things like that in schools. And there's always a lot of conversation around when your kid is starting school to talk to nurses and teachers and gym class teachers, PE teachers, whoever's doing this stuff that you don't want your child to participate in that, to just step aside from any pathology that could come alongside of it. Because they don't look at growth curves, right? They're just looking at a number. And the number is literally meaningless.
Emily (17:53)
sure is.
Sarah (17:54)
Yeah, I guess that's a conversation for another podcast.
Emily (17:57)
I was gonna say we have a lot. There's a lot there because it shows up in way more than just the media.
Sarah (18:04)
Yeah, so, know, and I think the reason why we thought this conversation was so important is because like we, like it's not going anywhere, unfortunately, right? And the more that we can normalize seeing just like regular people being in relationships and not this like ideal of diet culture being in relationship, the more like we can.
We can be seen ourselves. We can be seen, right? The more we can celebrate things, the more that we can step outside of shame and blame and buying into diet culture and disordered eating and the trap that that leads us into.
Emily (18:41)
Yes, I love that. love celebrate, but also normalize. Like, I think that it's great that we're having these positive conversations
This, we also just want to normalize. And I think it would be awesome to get to a point where it's like, this isn't like a groundbreaking thing. Like this is just a relationship between two people. We don't have to put such an emphasis on what bodies look like.
Sarah (19:02)
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah. And to support yourself to really like start to name it when you see it, especially online, because like we're all going to be on social media. And when there are these conversations going on, to be able to name like, yeah, that's that's anti -fat bias right there, right? Like, that's problematic. So you're externalizing it instead of like continuing to internalize these messages when people are saying really shitty, harmful things that are impactful to
to everyone, literally everyone, but especially people who are living in fat bodies.
Emily (19:39)
Yeah. Yes. And I actually love the lead actress in this season, Nicola Coughlin. I hope I'm saying her last name correctly. But she, think, you know, doing press started to get a little tired of the comments of, how does it feel? Or like comments about her body. And she kind of started to turn it on people, like when they would be like, you
What do you think about people seeing your body on screen or how did that feel? There was a quote that I loved that she was just kind of like, yeah, know, it's hard. know, I think women with my body type, like women with perfect boobs, we don't get to see ourselves on screen enough. And she almost kind of like made it a joke and like, but also like really like pushed it back. can you see now how this is kind of a ridiculous question that I'm tired of answering?
Sarah (20:30)
Yeah, that's amazing.
Emily (20:32)
So yeah, calling it out, whether that's, you know, kind of pushing it back on people, like pointing it out directly, having conversations with people that you love to kind of educate, like it's definitely a very important thing to call out.
Sarah (20:47)
Yeah, yeah. Any other ideas that you have for folks to challenge some of these messages that we like so easily internalize because they're everywhere and lots of times in family of, I can't say family of origin of the podcast, hold on.
Lots of time started in families that we grew up with. Yeah, any ideas of how to start to uproot some of this stuff?
Emily (21:09)
Well, I think it can start with what we consume. So if there's something that, you know, is very blatant or doesn't feel good, don't support that. You know, that's not something that we have to feed into. So whether that is something you're watching, something on social media, find something else to watch or like unfollow that page. I think, you know, first and foremost, we don't want to support things like that if we can.
have the power over that. I think that seeking out alternatives that feel supportive or finding places where we feel seen is a great way to kind of combat that and talk about it, whether that is in the sense of calling things out or like educating or to just have like supportive conversations with friends and kind of validate each other.
This is something that we do want to bring attention to in the hopes that one day this can just be a very normal thing that we don't have to have so much conversation around.
Sarah (22:20)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And yeah, like you said, seeking out bodies that are not only like yours, but different than yours in lots of ways, right? Like bodies are so diverse. So following people or consuming content that have bodies of all shapes and sizes across the spectrum so that you can see people living like really badass lives and literally everybody there is. Because that's real, like that's happening, right?
Emily (22:45)
Yes. Yeah, yeah. And that's a beautiful thing. Like that, that's the goal. That's what, that's what we want to say. That's what we want to normalize.
Sarah (22:55)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I think to just kind of share a few fat liberationists who have written really like wonderful books and produced lovely content online, that's really impactful and helpful for folks to name a few. And I can link to them in the show notes. you you can go to Amazon or their websites or their Instagram page, whatever. So Jess Baker, Things No One Will Tell Fat Girls, A Handbook for Unapologetic Living.
The Body is Not an Apology by Sonia Renee Taylor. That's a wonderful book. And there's also a workbook that goes alongside of that. Fearing the Black Body, The Racial Origins of Fatphobia by Sabrina Strings. That is probably one of the best books that you can read to really learn about, like the title says, the origins of fatphobia and how the intersections of race and where all of this started. we can't speak to fatphobia without speaking to racism. So.
That's a deep dive into that. And then Audrey Gordon's book, You Just Need to Lose Weight and 19 Other Myths About Fat People is also a really wonderful read. just a few things to maybe get you started, just to understand a little bit more. think this like heady exploration of these concepts is important before trying to embody, like rejecting all of the things and divesting from all of the things because that can just feel overwhelming to start with.
Emily (24:22)
Excellent recommendations. Yeah.
Sarah (24:24)
Thanks, thanks, thanks. And if we think of any more before we post the episode, can link to them as well. Yeah, anything else you want to share about Bridgerton or this in general?
Emily (24:34)
Yeah, I mean, I thought it was a lovely season if you're a fan and you haven't watched it yet. Highly recommend, especially the second half. The plot got much more exciting. But yeah, I think just. I can't really think of anything else. But yeah. Yeah, yeah, call it out.
Sarah (24:37)
Hahaha.
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah, it's like call it out when you see it, the bullshit. Yeah, mm -hmm, yeah. Remembering that diet culture is going to continue to profit off your pain for as long as we allow it to, right?
All right, well, that's what we got for today. I know I was gonna say, imagine it was three weeks ago. Yeah, slide it back, pretend like it was when everyone was talking about Richard Tinn.
Emily (25:08)
Yeah, sorry for the delayed topic. Yeah, yeah, we'll just update this a little bit.
Yeah, yeah. man.
Sarah (25:25)
All right. Well, thank you. Yeah, and we will be back next week for another episode. So until then, take good care. Bye. Let me see, stop.
Emily (25:28)
Thank you.
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