Reclaim You- Exploring Boundaries
Season 1: Episode 10-Boundaries and Boundary Setting with Abby
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Trauma Therapist in Pennsylvania talks boundaries!
Step into a world where boundaries can transform the way you care for yourself.
In this episode we begin by shedding light on Prentice Hemphill's thought-provoking definition of boundaries as the distance at which one can love oneself and another simultaneously. We tackle the challenging but critical aspect of implementing boundaries, and how it's a fine line between self-care and selfishness, steering clear of the misconception that setting limits is an act of negligence towards others.
Join Sarah and Abby we navigate the terrain of setting boundaries in relationships, discussing the intriguing concept of internal and external boundaries.
We dive into the complications that arise when explicit communication isn't possible and how to adjust our boundaries in the face of these challenges.
The conversation doesn't stop at setting external boundaries; we turn the spotlight on the importance of checking in with ourselves after setting a boundary and making them flexible. Listen in and discover how boundary setting isn't just about saying 'no,' but also a declaration of our worthiness and a testament to our self-respect.
Tune in to this discussion that promises to change the way you perceive and set your boundaries.
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00:01] Sarah: Hi there. Welcome to Reclaim You, a podcast published by the Reclaim Therapy team. Join us as we share stories, tools and insights on how to reclaim you in the wake of trauma, disordered eating, and body shame. Grab your coffee, tea or your favorite snack and get cozy because we're about to dive in. Welcome back to reclaim you we're chatting with Abby today. Hey, Abby.
[00:25] Abby: Hi Sarah. Hi, everyone.
[00:27] Sarah: Hey. So we are doing the who, why, how, what all about boundaries today.
[00:36] Abby: Yes. Boundaries so hard, but so necessary.
[00:43] Sarah: Right. But so important and like eye role at the same time and all of the things yeah. I think that I just actually posted on Instagram a Reel and from last week's episode with Casey talking about boundaries. And I was like and that's kind of like the reaction that I feel like a lot of us give. Boundaries are so hard.
[01:05] Abby: Yeah. And we talk about boundaries all the time and it feels like it's sort of I mean, in my mind I'm like, oh gosh, I feel like I am constantly thinking about boundaries, talking about boundaries. And still, despite all the conversation about boundaries, it's still so hard to put.
[01:23] Sarah: Into practice a challenge.
[01:25] Abby: Yeah. Why it's so important to keep talking about and to keep exploring, like, how are boundaries showing up in my life, not showing up in my life? Where do I need to set up more boundaries?
[01:39] Sarah: Yeah. So I guess to start, when you think about boundaries or talk about boundaries, what does it mean? Because we do, we talk about boundaries a lot, and sometimes I think it's helpful to break it down to like, what is a boundary?
[01:54] Abby: Yeah. Being more visual in my brain, I really think of boundaries as being sort of like the space between me and whatever else is in existence. Like the boundary between me and another person, the boundary between me and diet culture. For example, Prentice Hemp Hill, who like I'm going to have to read the quote exactly, is a therapist. Somatics teacher, founder of Embodiment Institute, has an amazing quote about boundaries. They state, boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously. And when I read that, heard that, it just solidified my understanding of boundaries in a different way, in a very embodied way. It's the space at which I can love you and me simultaneously. That definition also helped me come to terms with the fact that boundaries are not just important for me, but they're important for all of my relationships. I think it's so easy to get wrapped up in, like, when I set a boundary, I'm being selfish. It's all about me. This definition that they write about boundaries, this distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously. I think it's so important to remember. Yeah, it's super relational. Boundaries are super relational.
[03:26] Sarah: Yeah. No, that is a really wonderful quote and I'm curious how you just alluded to it some of like, how do you feel? Like it allows us to love other people, maybe more deeply or more connectedly.
[03:41] Abby: Connectedly?
[03:42] Sarah: Is that a word?
[03:43] Abby: We'll make it a word.
[03:45] Sarah: We'll make it a word.
[03:47] Abby: I mean, I know in my own life, if I'm in a relationship with someone, whether it be a family member, a friend, really anyone, if I am in relationship with them and a boundary is not in place and I'm feeling resentful, I'm feeling frustrated, I'm feeling like they're overstepping. I'm not able to be as present in the relationship. I'm not able to connect with them in the way that I want to. So I know for me, when that boundary is not in place, but there needs to be a boundary in place. Yeah. I'm full of resentment, full of frustration. There's tension there. Whereas when there's a boundary in place and we're both sort of respecting said boundary, all of that kind of dissolves or washes away and makes so much more space and room for presence, connection, curiosity.
[04:44] Sarah: Yeah. And then if we flip it around for you or us being able to love ourselves maybe more deeply, having the boundary, what's in that space that feels so important?
[04:55] Abby: When I first started learning about boundaries and practicing the application of boundaries, I think that sort of self love piece was my focus. Like, when I set a boundary. This is a form of self care. This is a form of self love. This is me honoring my own needs, my own wishes, my own desires. It's a form of showing up for ourselves that we don't really often get to do in many other ways. It's reaffirming for ourselves. Like, this is a need that I have and I have every right to have it. And so we don't just say that to ourselves. When we actually send that message out into the world in whatever way, through a boundary, we'reaffirming that for ourselves. I am worthy of having my needs and wants and expectations heard and met. So, yeah, that's sort of that piece of apprentice's quote or definition of boundaries, like, where I can love you and me simultaneously. My initial understanding of boundaries was very.
[05:57] Sarah: Much like the me.
[06:00] Abby: But I'm starting to really integrate the both. It's both you and me. The boundary is for both you and me and our relationship.
[06:09] Sarah: I love that. And I'm also thinking of how it challenges the difference between selfishness and self care. Right. Like, is it really selfish to set boundaries and to really focus and worry about your own needs? Or is it really just you taking care of yourself in a deeper, maybe more connected way?
[06:29] Abby: Yeah, I think that I imagine that's one of the harder parts about setting boundaries for a lot of people feeling like this is a selfish act. I'm not considering the other person in this equation. I'm being all about me. Me. Yeah. It really brings up that difference of selfishness versus self care. Yeah. Honoring our needs is a form of self care.
[06:50] Sarah: How do you feel, like, you know, when a boundary needs to be set? Like, what are some things to maybe look out for or acknowledge internally?
[07:03] Abby: Yeah. The feeling of agitation in the body. When I'm in relationship with someone and there's just a sense of agitation. There's a sense of maybe I'm feeling drained after a conversation or being with a person. The resentment, as I had mentioned earlier, like, if I'm starting to feel resentful about a relationship, a person, a thing in my life, perhaps there's a need for a boundary to be set. Perhaps there's a need for more space between me and that thing, me and that person. Those are typically my signs. I don't know if there's any others that come to mind for you. Yeah, mine are like the agitation, the resentment, feeling super drained.
[07:46] Sarah: Yeah, definitely. I think I'm with you on those. I'm thinking of those internal signs. No, like, no, that's not okay.
[07:55] Abby: Bringing another person into the conversation. Like, Brene Brown talks about boundaries a lot too. Another researcher, social worker, and says boundaries are very simply like, what's okay and what's not okay. And what I heard you saying was just like, that internal, this is not okay. Like, you being in my space in this way, physically or energetically, emotionally is not okay. And so maybe that does manifest in that sort of ick.
[08:23] Sarah: Yeah. And even like, time. Right. I'm thinking about all the different types of boundaries of boundaries around time and boundaries around personal space, boundaries around emotions, belongings. And there's all of these different places we can set boundaries to be more protective of ourselves, allowing us to show up differently in relationship with people and things. Right. And I'm sure the need to set boundaries would be different in all of those different realms of things. Personal space or items or time or energy or emotion or whatever it is.
[08:55] Abby: Yeah. It can be really, I think, easy to just think about boundary setting in sort of one sense of the word of like, okay, someone is maybe physically too close to me, or they're not giving me enough space in the house, or their stuff is all over my side of the room, like whatever it is. And to remember there are ways in which we need to set boundaries in.
[09:17] Sarah: Many parts of our lives.
[09:20] Abby: I think emotionally is one that I've like. The category of emotional boundaries is one that I've struggled with the most because it feels really ambiguous, an amorphous. Like, it's like, what exactly is going on here emotionally in this relationship that's giving me that ick that's making me feel drained and restless and agitated and resentful. For me, at least, it's really hard to get clear on what is the boundary I need to set in this sort of emotional exchange.
[09:55] Sarah: Yeah. And as you're saying that, I was thinking for me, part of what's hard is what's at risk? What could be at risk? At risk, at least in my brain, like the narrative in my brain is saying, or part of me is saying, like, maybe don't set the boundary. Because if you do, then what will they think? What will they do? How will this impact future interactions? It can go and go and go and go. So it can feel so scary to do that because it feels different. It feels risky, it feels vulnerable. And if maybe you haven't been comfortable being in those places and feeling those things, it can feel just like really flooding to even consider setting a boundary.
[10:34] Abby: Yeah, I was thinking about who might struggle with boundaries the most and people or types of people came to mind and I was thinking like, the people pleasers, the perfectionists. Those of us, and I say us because I wholeheartedly identify with perfectionism and.
[10:51] Sarah: People please lovingly a part of your crew. Right.
[10:55] Abby: I feel like those sort of parts of me make it really hard to set boundaries because like you were just saying, the fear is what will this person think? How will this make them feel? Are they going to leave? Go so deep down to like, am I then lovable? Right? Am I worthy of love in this relationship?
[11:16] Sarah: There's lots of scary things, like scary and very real things that are underneath all of this.
[11:21] Abby: Yeah. Which is why I think the physical category of boundary setting, there's some things that are maybe more concrete of like time. For example, I need to set a boundary around the time that I'm spending doing XYZ with this person, what have you. And then there will be for other categories that are really challenging for people to set boundaries in because of those tendencies. The people pleasing the perfectionism.
[11:45] Sarah: Absolutely. It's so funny because when you're talking about even just like physically setting a boundary, I'm thinking of when I was growing up. I have a twin sister and we shared a room forever for our entire lives. And we are just like complete opposites. And growing up, I used to get duct tape and literally draw a line down the center of the room. So like a very physical boundary. And my side of the room was very type A, right? Like very organized and put away. You can envision that. And then my sister's side of the room was just like **** was like everywhere. Everywhere. So it was just this very physical boundary of like, no, your **** stays on your side and my side stays the way that I needed to stay. That felt really easy, probably because it was like such a safe relationship and we were literally going to live together for 18 years of our lives in the same room. So yeah, I think that was probably like my first time setting very physical.
[12:44] Abby: Boundary I love that. And I wonder too, even like an inch of clothing over that line. No, not overnight.
[12:52] Sarah: Across the room. Like, what are you thinking? Get it off my side.
[12:57] Abby: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, what you said in there too was like that was such a safe relationship for you to set that really concrete boundary. And I was thinking about who we have an easier time setting boundaries with versus who in our lives. It's much harder to set boundaries with in that relationship. It's like, all right, we're going to be doing this for a long time.
[13:20] Sarah: For a long haul. Yeah.
[13:23] Abby: And I feel really comfortable and safe with you. Like just putting that line down. And then there's other people in our lives where the boundary setting is not only harder, but it's going to look and sound very different. I often think about, and I think people have different words for this, but for me it resonates most to think about internal and external boundaries. I do feel like there are some people in our lives where external boundary setting, explicit verbal boundary setting or explicit tape on the floor boundary setting may not be super safe or possible. And so what does then boundary setting look like in those relationships? Does it have to be a little bit more internal initially where we're kind of I'm thinking about diet culture and how it's so pervasive and we hear conversations about bodies and food left and right. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. And so I know for me, there's certain people in my life where I feel way more comfortable and safe to say, look, I'm not about that. That sort of topic is not okay for me. Let's talk about something else, like being really explicit, unapologetically. So. And then there's other people, whether it's just like distant relation, I'm not as close with them. So it's kind of like I don't really know how this is going to land where the boundary may be that instead of saying something explicitly, I need to sort of maybe step out of the room or change the subject or be a little bit more internal, like do more of the internal work as a boundary setting. Yeah, I don't know how I went from sort of tape on the floor to that no types of people in our lives.
[15:04] Sarah: No. Yeah. And even those people that feel I'm doing air quotes, I don't know why I'm doing it. Maybe it'll make sense, keep talking. But that feel really safe to set boundaries and then they don't honor the boundary. So it's like, oh, I have safety here, I can share like this. Please don't talk about food or your diet or whatever it is. And they're like, okay, yeah, I hear you, I hear you. And then they do anyway. That can feel really hard because you thought that they were safe and maybe they aren't as safe as you hope they were or they were before or whatever it is.
[15:38] Abby: It's so hard. Yeah, there's really like no formula or step by step approach of like, okay, I set the boundary, they follow it, they meet it and then we move on in our relationship and everything is peachy. It's like setting the boundary in a way that feels aligned for us and for the relationship. I mean, that's happened so many times where a boundary has been set and someone hasn't met it, especially as it relates to conversations around food, diet, culture talk, body talk. And my guess in that is, as I had said before, it's so pervasive, it's so ingrained. There is a compassionate part of me that comes up and recognizes and remembers. This is hard for a lot of people to even recognize in themselves. Maybe like, oh yeah, I'm talking about that diet again. They may not necessarily realize even though you have set the boundary. Yeah, there may be a forgetfulness. There like an unawareness and so the conversation keeps going. So there is like that aspect of me that comes up of like, okay, can I maybe be compassionate? And also I'm ******, I'm angry. I had an expectation that did not get met. And so for me, what I know I sort of try to do next is it is really fluid. Like, can I reset the boundary? Can I speak up about that again? Can I remind the person, hey, again, this is something that really I don't want to talk about and see what happens. And if that boundary continues to not be met, then the question becomes, okay, now what do I need to do to adjust?
[17:28] Sarah: And I think that can look lots of ways right. That can in maybe more extreme or more intense cases, that means sometimes, like, ending the relationship or creating more space from that relationship, maybe. And other times I think it can mean other things, like maybe just spending less time or just shutting down talk right away. Or like you said earlier, walking out of a room. The span of all of that can be pretty vast if someone continues to cross the boundary. Cross the boundary. Cross the boundary.
[17:57] Abby: Yeah. And as I said earlier, I feel like boundary setting is there's no sort of linear path, there's no formula. It's kind of trial and error. If it feels safe to do so at the front end when you set the boundary, if it feels safe to say being really concise and clear, like, I expect blank from you. And if that doesn't happen or I need us to not talk about these things when we're together and if that doesn't happen, this is what I'll need to do. Kind of like setting it all out at the forefront, if that feels comfortable, can be helpful. And maybe not initially, maybe that's not required or necessary, but perhaps in that resetting of the boundary, it's like hey, we talked about this. I really love hanging out. I want to keep doing that. And when we start talking about diets and food and all of this stuff, as I had mentioned before, I feel blank or it's a lot for me. I need us to not talk about that. And if we continue to find ourselves in this place, I need to maybe create some more distance, whatever it is. Fill in the blank for what makes sense for you in the relationship.
[19:08] Sarah: Absolutely. And body talk, too. Body comments, I think, is something that we talk a lot about of not only diet talk and food talk, but also when people just so freely comment on bodies and just like stop, right? Generally everyone's just stop. But when people are communicating that, I think it becomes almost so second nature for people to talk about bodies and hate on their bodies and talk about that right. That they don't even realize it half the time. Which, again, like a corner of compassion, of like, yeah, we get it, thy culture is real and we live in a really ****** society and there's suffering that's happening on the other side of these types of body comments and pulling people back into really, really hard patterns and behaviors and self beliefs. There's like a lot of risk in making those comments.
[20:01] Abby: I feel like it's as common as talking about the weather. In many ways, it's so automatic. And I do feel as though there are many people that are just not aware that there may be even talking about it again or that it has the impact that it has. Yeah, it's everywhere. And I'm just thinking about, again, sort of like my menu of options. Not that I have the menu readily available in my brain all the time. Sometimes it's hard to think about what do I want to say? What do I want to do? In these moments, sometimes we freeze and that's okay too. It's hard to know what to do. But sometimes my menu of options does pop up and the menu is like, I love that. Can I change the subject? Oh, speaking of I don't know, speaking of pants, speaking of pants, have you gone to that new mall or whatever? However it makes sense, I do find that to be sort of my most used menu item. If it's too hard to set a really firm boundary in that moment or it doesn't make sense in the situation or with the person, perhaps the best boundary to set is, okay, we're going to change the subject now. Yeah, but the other menu options or items are really like, leaving the space, leaving the room, if that's what you need to do. And of course, setting a more explicit boundary when you talk about bodies and it doesn't have to be some long convoluted thing like, I need us to not talk about bodies or diets or.
[21:36] Sarah: Whatever point blank yeah, point blank done. That's just what I need. Because it can feel so overwhelming to consider, okay, how do I feel? How do I communicate that? What do I need, how am I going to handle it? Right? And going straight to the point of I just can't be around when you're talking about bodies. Like I just need you to not do it. And trusting that whatever fallout happens, if fallout happens, you're going to be able to handle that and hopefully the relationship will be able to handle that.
[22:02] Abby: Some affirmations I think that are helpful when setting boundaries is I know for me is sort of however this boundary lands for this person is for them to process and figure out and take care of. I also think a lot about like, that's theirs, this is mine. Yeah, it's really, really complex. I mean, I've also heard before some people talk about or like use sort of an analogy of when setting boundaries around this sort of diet talk, body talk, which I think can be helpful for some people and maybe solidify it more in their brains, which is, you know how some people don't like to talk about religion or politics. Some people just kind of keep that out of conversation. That's how I feel about diet talk and body talk. I want for us to kind of keep that off the table moving forward. I haven't used that one in particular, but I think it could be helpful for some.
[23:00] Sarah: So let's go back real quick to some of the internal work around boundaries. So we talked a lot about the external work and the how and all of that and what about what you can do internally with yourself while or after setting a boundary.
[23:18] Abby: After I set a boundary, I find it really helpful to kind of check in with myself. How did that feel when I set the boundary? Like in that moment, how did I feel physically in my body? If I can sort of tap into that, what were some of the thoughts that were sort of running through my mind? How did that land for the other person? And again, that is not our responsibility, but just like noticing what came up for the other person and therefore, what reaction did that stir up in me? Just taking a moment to pause and reflect, what was that interaction like? And then sort of after the fact, how am I feeling now? Now that the boundary is set? How am I feeling again in my body? What are some things I'm thinking about? Did that boundary feel aligned? And it may be unclear. We may not know right away. I just think taking a moment to check in and then also remembering and reminding ourselves a boundary is not finite, it's not final. Like you can have a do over, you can go back and adjust course. Sometimes I've set boundaries that are way too rigid, more rigid than I had intended, and it wasn't actually what I wanted or needed. And that's okay. I set a really rigid boundary that felt right and made sense in the moment. And then thereafter, after checking in with myself again, how is this boundary feeling for me, noticing, okay, perhaps I don't need it to be this rigid. There's the metaphor like the visual of a brick wall as a boundary that's super rigid. Can I then maybe sort of backtrack and get curious about what might sort of a garden fence boundary look like one that has a gate that opens and closes that's a little bit more permeable or flexible? And then of course, going back to that person or whoever you set the boundary with to continue the communication. I set this boundary. It's not feeling super right for me anymore. And you don't even have to use the word boundary, however you communicate that.
[25:26] Sarah: We had this conversation.
[25:29] Abby: I said I needed this space in this way. And after taking some time to reflect on it and think about it, I'm realizing that may not actually be what I need. And what I'm really hoping for, what I really want is for the relationship to look this way. I find that to be super helpful. Checking in with myself, how did that feel in the moment? How does it feel now? And intermittently checking in with yourself, how is this still feeling? Do I need to change the boundary? Because that's completely allowed.
[25:57] Sarah: Absolutely. And there that is again. That like taking care of yourself and taking care of the relationship. Right? That boundary does that. And it really honors that process of being able to show up in that way for yourself and in the relationship that you're in. And I'm also just thinking of practice. Right. It can be really hard. I have a hard time with boundaries a lot at times. There's a lot of my own personal work. And so it's like this practice and practice and practice and practice that makes it a bit more of a skill at some point. Maybe still challenging, but it's okay if it's not easy at first.
[26:28] Abby: Yeah. Similar to this sort of post check in, after setting a boundary, we can do any kind of post check in if we didn't set a boundary and we really needed to or wished we had, it can be easy to get down on ourselves. I should have spoken up in that moment. I should have said something, should have done something differently. And sure, we can honor that. Recognize a boundary would have been helpful in that moment. I did the best that I could with what I had. And next time, if there's the opportunity and also I can reach out to this person, there are options for moving forward. There's still potential to set boundaries, whether they are internal boundaries or external boundaries.
[27:08] Sarah: Love that. Yes. Anything else you feel like you want to add.
[27:12] Abby: Yeah. Boundary setting is so hard, and it's just a constant conversation with ourselves. What do we need? What do we want? We are worthy and deserving of having our needs be known by others in our lives. It can be really helpful to just consistently check in with yourself, whether it's through a journal, practice, through therapy, to just get more in touch with what are my needs? What are my wants? Are they being met by myself and by others? And if not, what are some ways I can take care of that? What are some ways I can communicate?
[27:45] Sarah: That beautiful. I love it. All right, everybody, we will be back next week for another episode, and in the meantime, make sure you head to the website and check out all of our new merch that we just launched last week. Let us know what your thoughts are around boundaries, what's challenging, what's helpful, even celebrating success in setting boundaries, because I think that's important, too. Let us know your thoughts. We'd love to hear. All right, we will see you next week. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Reclaim You. Be sure to, like, comment and subscribe and check us out on YouTube at Reclaim You. If you're looking to start therapy for trauma disordered eating, or body image concerns, head over to our website@www.reclaimtherapy.org to learn more about us and our work. We'll be back next week with another episode. Until then, take good care of yourself. You.
Reclaim therapy is a group of eating disorder therapist in Pennsylvania. We also provide treatment for PTSD and CPTSD.
As therapists, we talk about boundaries A LOT! Which is why this episode is so important. We know that boundary setting is so important in recovery from disordered eating and trauma. If you’re looking for support on your recovery journey, we would be honored to walk beside you!